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Post by The Thinker on Jun 2, 2006 11:13:02 GMT -5
Here's a theory: all Hartnell, Troughton and Pertwee Dalek stories could have the potential to take place in between 'Genesis of the Daleks' and 'Destiny of the Daleks', explaining the lack of Davros. Oh yes, making good progress! Ah but then how to you explain the digression of the Daleks to travelling via static electricity? Theory: The MkII travel machines, trapped underneath the ground a considerable distance from the Kaled dome, explaining its apparent absense in 'Genesis of the Daleks'. Reliant on static, abandoned by Davros.
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 2, 2006 11:57:00 GMT -5
Ah but then how to you explain the digression of the Daleks to travelling via static electricity? Theory: The MkII travel machines, trapped underneath the ground a considerable distance from the Kaled dome, explaining its apparent absense in 'Genesis of the Daleks'. Reliant on static, abandoned by Davros. Which is very much the original idea I posted beforehand. I'm thinking about the idea of placing the Hartnell/ Troughton/ Pertwee Dalek stories in between 'Genesis' and 'Destiny' idea, might need to tweak a few ideas to fit in some of the other Dalek stories (mainly the idea of the colour scheme change of the dalek casings might need to be pondered upon) but nevertheless an idea worth pursuing if it works out.
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Post by The Thinker on Jun 2, 2006 12:16:28 GMT -5
A special feature with 'Genesis of the Daleks' suggests that the silver/blue-or-black pre-Revelation Type Daleks are more of the scientific variety whilst the grey Daleks are more of the fighters, "Grunts" of the Dalek army as it were. A suggestion worth taking on board wouldn't you say?
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 2, 2006 12:52:05 GMT -5
OK, so I've started again and what follow are my rough notes on how the history maps out. Might be a bit difficult to understand and it's probably full of spelling errors but this is where I'm up o so far: The Daleks from their first story were built to survive the Thal war by and able-bodied Davros, who was shunned out of the city because the Daleks were restricted to city. He joins another bunch of Dals who call themselves Kaleds. He suffers from a Thal attack and is left in a wheelchair. He goes on to create more refined Daleks seen in the show's later years.
The Daleks killed by the Doctor in their first story are rebuilt by factory machinery set off by the Thal attack and the now fully mobile creatures go on to invade Earth where a surveillance ship orbiting the planet foresees the future when the Daleks will once again be ruled by Davros and Skaro will be destroyed. They disappear from scanners and set out rebuilding a new Skaro, move Davros (who has been attacked and abondonned by his other Daleks). They then begin to manipulate the Doctor into meeting Davros and causing the destruction of the fake Skaro instead of the real one.
The Daleks are destroyed during the Earth invasion but others back on the real Skaro begin setting up an Empire for all Hartnell, Troughton and all Pertwee bar ‘Day of the Daleks’ stories. The empire is eventually destroyed by the other Daleks created by Davros, who have been escaping from their jail on Skaro the Doctor trapped them in in 'Genesis of the Daleks', found the other Dalek city and have taken over. The Daleks from the city are destroyed and continuity begins again from where ‘Destiny of the Daleks’ left off, with the Daleks who created the fake Skaro sending out the faked Movellans to give the Daleks a reason for returning to Davros, letting history run it's course.
Once fake Skaro is destroyed along with other Daleks from ‘Genesis’ and Davros’ own loyal brigade, the Daleks in orbit, who created fake Skaro, intervene and try him for crimes against them, leading to what could have been the destruction of their own planet.
They have already experimented with altering time in ‘Day of the Daleks’. They joined the other Daleks (seen in 'Genesis') by pretending to be allies but abandoned them some time during the Movellan war in between 'Destiny' and 'Resurrection' to avoid being destroyed in ‘Remembrance’ so they will survive to put Davros on Trial.
There are still a faction of rogue Daleks on the real Skaro who are loyal to Davros, who fight to save him in ‘War of the Daleks’. The Dalek which is sent to kill him at the end of the novel is actually one of his followers, it teleports him away where he lands, crippled, on a space ship; leading into events in 'Terror Firma'.
Following events in that story, he turns into the Emperor and he leads his Daleks forward, to attack the Time Lords as revenge for the Doctor’s trickery in ‘Remembrance’. The Daleks from ‘Genesis’ have actually been fighting for some time against the Time lords in minor skirmishes since ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ and coupled with the other faction of Daleks’ attack in ‘The Apocalypse Element’ and 'Planet of the Daleks' (in which the Timre Lords sent the Docotr to wipe out their armies) the trigger is eventually pulled and the Time War starts.The main bulk of Davros' history is still to be written and the trial of the master from the TV Movie, the more major details of the Time War, the Bernice Summerfield audio and the main history of the Daleks seen in 'Genesis' through to ‘Remembrance’ are a work in progress. Apart from that, what do you think so far (if you've managed to decipher my insane ramblings thus far )
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Post by The Thinker on Jun 2, 2006 16:21:11 GMT -5
Here's a tip, try to give your paragraphs and sentences a little bit more structure, I only just managed to decipher that.
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 2, 2006 16:52:46 GMT -5
Here's a tip, try to give your paragraphs and sentences a little bit more structure, I only just managed to decipher that. Ah well it wasn't expressly written to be posted, more a series of notes for me to follow when I got round to refining it. Just wanted to show you lot I'd been making some progress. EDIT: I've skimmed through the notes in my previous post and modified them so they might be a bit more readable, apologies for any spelling mistakes but I haven't got time to check
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Post by The Thinker on Jun 7, 2006 4:30:05 GMT -5
I suggest going back home, sorting things out, structuring paragraphs & sentences and then posting the completed article on to here. What do you think?
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 7, 2006 10:58:56 GMT -5
I suggest going back home, sorting things out, structuring paragraphs & sentences and then posting the completed article on to here. What do you think? Actually I've been intending to do that all along. I posted those notes as proof I had been working on the article, if they weren't legible then I apologise but that's the way I work, and in my original message I did state they were only 'rough notes'. At no point were they intended to be posted as the final product. I only posted them, as I say, as evidence the article was still a work in progress and that I hadn't abandoned it. In future I'll just leave my notes on my laptop. I hope to spend another hour or so on this tonight trying to tie together the last few stories I'm yet to examine before moving on to the timeline of Davros. I doubt anything will be set in stone, only a few more uncoordinated notes but I shan't post them because they'll only seem redundant.
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 7, 2006 14:36:52 GMT -5
OK, another update on how things are looking at the moment. The official Doctor Who website now contains a short history of the Daleks, which seems to imply all of the Dalek stories from 'The Dalek Invasion of Earth' and 'Death To The Daleks' all occur between 'Genesis of the Daleks' and 'Destiny of the Daleks'. As such I'm re-writing everything to fit with this and a more prolific update with some actual material should be up in a few days.
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 10, 2006 14:58:31 GMT -5
I must apologise the progress on this has been a bit stagnant over the past few days, but other commitments both inside and outside the world of Doctor Who have caused me to put this to one side for a bit.
I should be looking into getting the last few notes together by the end of the week so I can start to piece it together. Granted next week will be busy time for me so if updates prove few in number in this thread for a while I apologise most humbly.
After next week I'm free from serious work commitment for the summer so I shall be devoting more of my time to getting this finished, finishing off the last season or so of my Paul McGann stories and moving on to either developing a few of my story ideas into larger pieces of fiction or getting a bit more writing done for the guide itself. Now that Cameron is away, he's sending me some of his notes to work on so we can keep the updates to the site coming.
Thanks for the continued support, the project should definitely be finished by the end of the month at the latest barring further unforeseen problems.
Thanks again,
Dominic
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Post by Dominic Smith on Jun 11, 2006 10:52:34 GMT -5
AT LAST
I finally made a proper start on the article, here is what I've managed so far:
The very beginnings of Dalek history are detailed in the story of their very first appearance simply entitled ‘The Daleks’. The Daleks were once known as the Dals, one of the two races of people on the planet Skaro, the other being the Thals. These two races did not cooperate well and eventually they went to war with each other. Over many years the battle continued and eventually, as chemical warfare began to enter into the affray, the Dals mutated and concealed themselves in metallic casings and renamed themselves Daleks, secluding themselves in they metallic city to which they became dependant. The war began to come to a close, as the Thals became a tribe of peace-seeking beings who tried to survive in the barren remains of the planet.
However, by the time the Doctor returned to the time of war on Skaro in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ the history of the planet seemed to be rewritten. No mention of the Dals came to pass, instead the Thals’ adversaries were named Kaleds and the origins of the Daleks themselves changed from being the mutation from radiation poisoning to the natural progression of the Kaled race, housed in casings designed by a crippled scientist known as Davros.
This seems to undermine what occurred in the first ever Dalek story, but it is possible to draw the two separate strains together. Perhaps in some areas of Skaro the Dals renamed themselves Kaleds whilst others kept their own namesake. Those seen in the original story did not adopt this name, perhaps they never heard of the change. However the main question is how the Daleks came to be in a different city from the one seen in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ and how they seemed more primitive (i.e. their dependence on static electricity).
It is established that the first ever Dalek introduced in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ was the third version of the machine casing. Perhaps Davros once created another race of Daleks from the remains of a chemical weapons battle, but they contained many errors such as the immobility of rough terrain and thus he abandoned them before moving off to the other side of the planet seen in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ where chemical warfare had not taken place.
The Daleks that he left could have built the city seen in ‘The Daleks’ and progressed to the point of their destruction at the end of the story whilst Davros moved on to create better race of Daleks for the Kaleds, who were evolving into a more basic species. After experimenting with mutating animal matter he moved on to Kaled tissue, housing it in a new form of casing, one that was more mobile, one step closer to invincible.
So in it’s simplest form of explanation it could bee seen that the Daleks seen in the very first Dalek story were earlier experiments conducted by Davros before he moved on to create the finalised casing revealed in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’.
Fitting together the rest of the televised Dalek stories is not too difficult. The last five stories are obviously in chronological order, and it could be that the other Dalek stories, between ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’ and ‘Death to the Daleks’, take place between ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ and ‘Destiny of the Daleks’, when the Daleks have freed themselves from the prison the Doctor left them in and gone to explore the galaxy before returning for their creator.
Dalek design is one thing that hinders this, by supposing that ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’ occurs after ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ there would appear to be a digression in the design of the mid-section of the casing reguarding the slats. Perhaps these were removed in order to fit the disks mounted on the Dalek casings in ‘The Dalek invasion of Earth’, which were used to aid travel on other worlds but when this became more common to everyday Dalek life the technology in the disks was incorporated into the slats which were then replaced to look less ungainly.
So that explains the difference in physical design, the colourings of the casings could be explained by claiming that the Daleks seen in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ never actually went to other worlds, instead they send new races of Daleks they themselves had created which were different in shading to themselves it was only during their latter explorations (circa ‘Day of the Daleks) that they themselves got involved, all other times they were sitting watching, based on Skaro.
It is also possible that the Daleks moved away from the ruined bunker and founded a new base, perhaps utilising the one left behind by the other more basic Daleks in the very first story. Once there they could read the machinery and discover the appearance of the Doctor so that they would recognise him again when they found him during ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’.
So just to keep things simple here are the basics so far:
· The earlier Daleks are destroyed but there city is taken by the other Daleks from ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ when they escaped the ruined bunker.
· They then set about using the city and it’s facilities to create new, more advanced Daleks capable of travel on other worlds and they began to develop a form of space travel with which to discover new worlds.
· Having read the cities computers they discovered the first Doctor and his companions and they are thus able to recognise them in ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’.
Next up: the rise of the Emperor and Supreme Daleks, the invasion of Earth and the forming of the fake Skaro.
So what do you think, is it any good?
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Post by Dominic Smith on Oct 23, 2006 16:04:43 GMT -5
Well it's been a while, but I had another go at this today, and I think I may have got somewhere with it Dalek HistoryOn face value it appears that Dalek history is, in a way, initially split into two timelines. The first running between their original appearance in ‘The Daleks’ to their final battle against Jon Pertwee in ‘Death to the Daleks’. By the time ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ came to be it appeared that Dalek history had been rewritten, instead of the race known as Dals mutating and seeking refuge in their city inside metal casings as was originally adopted in the narrative of their first story, the Daleks were seen as the creations of a maverick scientist known as Davros, who appeared in every subsequent television story until the series went off-air in 1989. So how can these two timelines be reconciled? It is possible to say that perhaps the Dalek stories placed between ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’ and ‘Death To The Daleks’ actually occur after ‘Genesis of the Daleks’, once the creatures have escaped the Doctor’s tomb, and before they eventually return to find their creator in ‘Destiny of the Daleks’. But this still leaves a blazing continuity error in the way of two conflicting accounts of how the Daleks were created. It could be however that the Daleks seen in the original 1963 story were also Davros’ creations, maybe an earlier model (which accounts for the primitiveness of their design, in the way of the static electricity dependency). At the end of the first episode of ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ Davros and Gharman are seen in a secret base, which could mean that the original Daleks were a secret build, but when Davros saw their limitations he abandoned them. Other inconsistencies also surround the Thals and Skaro itself. The agricultural Thals are far removed from the military organisation of those seen in later stories, and Skaro’s jungles were never seen again. It could be said. However, that the Daleks seen in the original story were actually on the other side of the planet than those in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’. The war of the two races would not have been limited to one area of the planet, and thus some groups of Thals would be at different stages of development than others, different climates and situations might well have left some more militant than others. So, so far we can work out a rough timeline of events for the television stories at least; ‘The Daleks’ first, followed by ‘Genesis of the Daleks’, then ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’ through to ‘Death to the Daleks’ and then ‘Destiny of the Daleks’ through to ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’. It is however possible to add in the Big Finish audios and other media into the Dalek continuity. The main bulk of stories that need to be implanted are the three ‘Dalek Empire’ series and the four original Big Finish Dalek stories, ‘The Genocide Machine’, ‘The Apocalypse Element’, ‘The Mutant Phase’ and ‘Time of the Daleks’. By continuity of these stories release and by comments made in the stories themselves (namely references to the events on Gallifrey from ‘The Apocalypse Element’ in the first Dalek Empire stories) we can place the single stories featuring the Doctor before the three spin-off series, but it is not only this that needs to be decided, these stories also need to be placed at some point in the continuity of the television series. The non-appearance of Davros would imply that these stories take place before his return in ‘Destiny of the Daleks’, and certain dates given in the stories imply that these take place at some point after ‘Evil of the Daleks’, and that the Emperor seen in these stories is one separate from the one seen in ‘Evil’. Therefore it would be simple to place these stories after ‘Evil of the Daleks’, when presumably the Dalek have re-built their empire after the civil war (it has been documented that in the footage of the final scenes set on Skaro the casing of the destroyed Emperor Dalek was made to glow, implying that the Daleks might not be dead and that they could return, as indeed they did in ‘Day of the Daleks’). Other Big Finish audios to feature the Daleks are ‘The Juggernauts’ and ‘Terror Firma’. The former may well take place between ‘Revelation of the Daleks’ (although it could be said that the ending of the play links to the Doctor’s comments in ‘Revelation’ of last seeing Davros when his ship blew up). Trying to link in ‘Terror Firma’ however can help to link in the two Dalek instalments of the BBC Eighth Doctor novels. The first, ‘War of the Daleks’, actually throws the whole of Dalek continuity in a new light, in stating that that after ‘The Dalek Invasion of Earth’ the Daleks received a transmission from 1963 in which they saw the destruction of Skaro, which occurred in ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’. As such they terra-formed another planet to make it look like Skaro. After experimenting with time travel in ‘Day of the Daleks’ (taking that story out of major Dalek continuity as this faction of Daleks are actually not serving Davros, they consider him a traitor for what he did to their home world) the Daleks move Davros from his tomb on the real Skaro and onto the fake one. After manufacturing the Movellan army to ensure history took its true course and Davros was rediscovered by the other faction of Daleks, eventually to be tricked by the Doctor into destroying the fake Skaro in ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’, the ‘rogue’ Daleks continued to live on the true Skaro until Davros was abducted after entering suspended animation following the destruction of his fake home world. After this they eventually attempt to kill him but it could be that the Dalek sent to destroy him was in fact one that had been poisoned and was in actually on his side (a plot line in the novel), instead of killing him it actually transported him through space to where he was found in ‘Terror Firma’. The second novel, ‘Legacy of the Daleks’, is much easier to place in the continuity as it is a closed-ended story, taking place after ‘Dalek Invasion of Earth’ and not continuing into any other story. Before moving on to ‘Terror Firma’ and beyond, it is worth noting that other Dalek stories, such as the Telos novella ‘The Dalek Factor’, the Bernice Summerfield Audio ‘Death To The Daleks’ and also the comic strips, all probably take place either during the Dalek empire spanning up until ‘Evil of the Daleks’ or indeed the other covered by the Big Finish audios. ‘Terror Firma’ sees the demise of Davros, as he is turned into the Emperor Dalek. The Daleks themselves, created from human material, are not killed by the end of this story and so it follows that it may well be these Daleks who were seen in the 2005 television series, who fought in the Time War. However, it may be that the Daleks seen in ‘War of the Daleks’ were those in the television stories, as they were not destroyed by the end of the novel. However their ranking system (the presence of a Dalek Prime) seems to contradict this as those in the Time Wars had an Emperor. It is because of this that a prediction or assumption has to be made as to what happened. The ‘pure’ Daleks from the novels would probably have defeated the half-human ones, and perhaps Davros would have been destroyed. However by ‘Terror Firma’ it is established that the Daleks were no longer the threat of the universe and so perhaps the Daleks from Skaro under command of the Daleks Prime were actually destroyed by some other force, perhaps the last surviving Thals. After ‘Terror Firma’, as the Daleks and their Emperor leave Earth we can assume that after some time they become involved in the Time War. Although not directly connected to those Daleks who tried to invade Gallifrey in ‘The Apocalypse Element’ or whom the Time Lords sent to destroy in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’ it is possible further skirmishes followed, and eventually the wars begun, with Davros, alias the Emperor, returning to Skaro and creating more Dalek material ready for battle. The exact details of the Time War are yet to be revealed but so far, from the Dalek point of view we do know that the creatures had a home world, that the Emperor escaped the ‘inferno’ the Doctor used to destroy the creature that also destroyed the Time Lords and was seen again in ‘Bad Wolf’/ ‘The Parting of the Ways’, and that the Cult of Skaro also escaped escorting a Time Lord prison for the Daleks, seen again in ‘Army of Ghosts’/ ‘Doomsday’. Two lone Dalek soldiers were seen in the television story ‘Dalek’ and the Quickread novel ‘I Am A Dalek’. So to condense all of this we can draw up the following chain of events: - Davros creates a group of prototype Daleks, which he abandons due to limitations. They are destroyed by the First Doctor and Davros then moves on to create a more perfected Dalek design as seen in ‘Genesis of the Daleks’
- After the Fourth Doctor imprisons the Daleks after his mission for the Time Lords they eventually break free and move out to create the first Dalek empire, consisting of every television story between ‘Dalek Invasion of Earth’ and ‘Evil of the Daleks’, apart from ‘Day of the Daleks’ and also including the novel ‘Legacy of the Daleks’.
- After the failed invasion of Earth, thwarted again by the First Doctor, some of the Daleks see the destruction of Skaro at the hands of Davros and the Seventh Doctor. To stop this they create the fake Skaro and move Davros there, before creating the Movellans and manipulating the Doctor, Davros and their fellow Daleks to ensure history runs its course. In the process of this they trigger the events that take place in ‘Day of the Daleks’.
- Meanwhile, the main faction of Daleks return to the fake Skaro, unaware of the switch. The continue to build a second empire as detailed in the Big Finish audio spin-offs and other audios; ‘The Genocide Machine’, ‘The Apocalypse Element’, ‘The Mutant Phase’ and ‘Time of the Daleks’.
- After the events of ‘Death To The Daleks’ the creatures come up against the Movellans and are forced to return to find Davros, triggering the series of events that continue through the rest of the television stories, the Big Finish Audio ‘The Juggernauts’.
- After ‘Remembrance of the Daleks’ Davros is frozen in time and taken back to the true Skaro, where the events of the novel ‘War of the Daleks’ take place. This then leads into the audio ‘Terror Firma’ and then on to the Time War, presuming that the rogue Daleks seen in ‘War of the Daleks’ (who created the fake Skaro) are destroyed at some point after the novel.
- After fighting the Time Wars against the Time Lords the Daleks are almost all destroyed by, presumably, the Eighth Doctor (who possibly returns to Earth to track down the Nestene Consciousness and then regenerates) and the only survivors are the Emperor (who hides himself away, rebuilding an army that is seen in ‘Bad Wolf’ / ‘The Parting of the Ways’), the Cult of Skaro (who find themselves in the void between dimensions with the Genesis Arc, only to return to Earth in ‘Army of Ghosts’ / ‘Doomsday’. Two lone survivors are also found on Earth, the details of which are found in the television episode ‘Dalek’ and the short novel ‘I Am A Dalek’.
Further developments are yet to be seen, these notes are subject to change with future releases, particularly the Big Finish spin-off series ‘I, Davros’ and the ‘Short Trips’ collection entitled ‘Dalek Empire’.***** What do you think? It's better late than never Thanks, Dominic
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Post by The Thinker on Oct 24, 2006 10:13:17 GMT -5
Actually I think that's quite interesting. Very good. *Walks to the printer*
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Post by Dominic Smith on Oct 31, 2006 13:18:19 GMT -5
Actually I think that's quite interesting. Very good. *Walks to the printer* From the Terms And Conditions Thread: - You may not copy or reprint any part of this forum or its content without prior permission.
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Post by The Thinker on Oct 31, 2006 13:44:49 GMT -5
Actually I think that's quite interesting. Very good. *Walks to the printer* From the Terms And Conditions Thread: - You may not copy or reprint any part of this forum or its content without prior permission. Don't worry, not to sell. For personal use, i.e.: Reading in bed. Anyway, before I could go any further the power cut out. *sigh!*
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