Paul McGann timeline

[patrexesjosef]

I've long admired the effort gone into this fantastic reference site, yet I've always wondered if the 8th Doctor section could be rearranged?

Surely the BF audios take place after the EDAs? I mean, it's hard to believe the Doctor went through so much and claimed only '3 years' had passed between The Eight Doctors and Vampire Science.

Perhaps there could be a redecision (poll, perhaps?) on how the 8th Doctor timeline should be contructed. And perhaps a vote on whether the DWM magazine comic strips should be added (they do tie-in to the TV chronology after all, and any contradictions are subject to the same reasons the BF audios contradict the EDAs).

Thanks,
JC

[drwhofan1]

I think that the comics should be included, especially the DWM issues. There are a few contradictions, but not many.

The 8th Doctor section, I think, should remain the same. If 3 years had passed between The Eight Doctors & Vampire Science, then why can't the BIG Finish series take place in between that time period.

Thanks,

DTV

[boies00]

The comics have not been included mostly because most people do not consider them cannon. But it's not the only reason.

There may not be so many contradictions with the 7th and 8th Doctor comics, but it's a mess when you look to older stories. And I don't want to arbitrary choose those who fit and those who do not. So far, I have only included those having been acknowledge by a novel or an audio story.

But I like many of these strips -- especially those of the 5th Doctor era. The main problem lies with the Chronologoly of the 6th Doctor stories featuring Frobisher and Peri, and fitting it with the audios, books and episodes.

I know I won't be able to please everyone, but it's easier that way than trying to fit an unreconciliable story in the timeline. If somebody is able to offer me with a strong continuity, I am willing to think about adding the DWM strips into the Reference Guide continuity.

Now, regarding the time-placement of the audios at the beginning of the 8th Doctor era. As Drwhofan1 stated, a gap of 3 years has been voluntary instated between The Eight Doctors and Vampire Science by Doctor Who authors for such stories.

If you look at the number of 8th Doctor novel published by the BBC during just a few years, you can surely accepted as many audio stories in the same amount of time!!!

Dom

[discontinuity]

I believe that an explaination for the 8th doctor books so far is in the pipeline. please correct me if i am wrong

[lethbridgestewart]

Why is it a problem to have them take place in between T8D and VS?

Say that none of the books existed. You take it for granted that at least a little time has past between episodes. Same thing here.

He's a time traveller after all. How do you know he was even speaking in human terms regarding a year. He could've easily been referring to a Gallifreyan year.

We already know that the Doctor ages much more slowly than humans. He could've been gone a decade and Sam wouldn't have known any better.

Always remember the one line in "Attack of the Cybermen" with the police threat of time in jail: "handful of heartbeats to a Time Lord".

[patrexesjosef]

I was speaking from a narrative POV. Wouldn't it be nice to say that, after the entire epic EDA arcs, there was a separate set of adventures, refreshed?

EDAs, then
DWM Strip adventures, and finally
The BF audios.

Seems like a natural progression, as opposed to disregarding an entire era of exciting magazine adventures and shoving the full-cast audios into the first convenient gap?

[boies00]

patrexesjosef said:

I was speaking from a narrative POV. Wouldn't it be nice to say that, after the entire epic EDA arcs, there was a separate set of adventures, refreshed?

EDAs, then
DWM Strip adventures, and finally
The BF audios.

Seems like a natural progression, as opposed to disregarding an entire era of exciting magazine adventures and shoving the full-cast audios into the first convenient gap?

It's strange you are talking like that because it' exactly what I am currently working on.

As you may have noted, I have started updating and revising the whole guide -- something that haven't unfortunately really been done in years.

And looking at continuity issues, some 8th Doctor novels and audios are hinting at parallel timelines.

I have thought a lot over the past several days at your comments in the first post of this thread, and after really digging into it I have to agree that there's too much stuff to fit between The Eight Doctors and Vampire Science -- especially when we know that the only stuff ever referenced there is the Radio Times Strips and The Dying Days!!!

Untill something more definite is drawn up by the authors to clear up the whole mess, I'll work something like this:

EDA --> From the TV movie to The Gallifrey Chronicles
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The DWM strips
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Big Finish audio & related Stories
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Infinity Doctor

Different sections interpreted as parallel universe.

For those who prefer a chronological view, they could disregards the borders of each section and see them together:

The Doctor has adventures up to The Gallifrey Chronicles. He find himself afterwards without companion and begins his adventures with Izzy in the DWM strips. Then again at some point he find hiself alone, relive Shada then start travelling with Charley in Storm Warning.

Putting the audio last also allow for further stories and explanations, assuming that the no further development will come from the strips or 8th Doctors BBC novels.

Until we know more...

Dom

[ryard]

Jeez, I just asked a question about the placement of DWM in another forum.

I guess, in favor of the three-year gap, how much time do we really think has passed during the Big Finish audios, and do the other universe stories count as far as time passing?

The really tricky thing, to me, is the relevation of his previous companions and adventures. That alone tells me there must have been more than three years.

Now, here's the crazy part...is it possible that Eight Doctors doesn't take place immediately after the TV movie? I know Terrance Dicks certainly intended that, and it really looks like it, but I don't see any reason that the Doctor couldn't have picked up reading The Time Machine later...and although the Doctor is thinking about how the Master tried to take over the TARDIS (a reference to the movie), didn't the Master pop up as an entity living inside the Vortex in an issue of DWM? It's the same series, if I remember correctly, where the Doctor ages fifty years or so...ugh...

But anyway, could the Doctor be refering to an as-yet unseen adventure bridging the comic strip, Big Finish (including the prior companions), and whatever else and leading into The Eight Doctors? I know that's a pretty big leap to take, just throwing it out there.

[boies00]

The EDAs do not reference any of the 8th Doctor audios or comic strips as far as I know, which *could imply* these takes place afterwards.

Sam is listed among the past (or current?) companions in Minuet in Hell, meaning the audio stories do not take place before The Eigth Doctors. Could that also mean that the comic strips take place after the audios since Izzy is not mentionned?

Dom

P.S.: I have just updated the Reference Guide with the new 8th Doctor timeline. (an official announcement about the changes will be made when I am completely done).

[whoisthedoctor]

The largest argument I can see against the BF audios following the EDA's is Romana. In the EDAs she regenerates from her Lalla Ward form into a new body, yet in the BF audios she's still clearly the Lalla Ward version. This alone seems enough for me to think the BF audios clearly preced the books. (As for the DWM comics, that may be a different story.)

[boies00]

For now, we'll assume the 8th Doctor audios are in a parallel universe. There are inconsistencies in every other options.

Dom

[whoisthedoctor]

admin said:

For now, we'll assume the 8th Doctor audios are in a parallel universe. There are inconsistencies in every other options.

Dom

I'm hoping this is only a temporary situation until we can figure it out though. Having a giant chunk of Who's continuity not really "count" because it's in a parallel universe is less than ideal.

[boies00]

But when the people behind the various ranges hint at that, it's not an easy trend to go against...

I'll keep the guide like that until we hear more, or somebody bring an nice theory about fitting everything together...

It would be quite easy anyway to move the audios back in the gap between The Eight Doctors and Vampire Science if it what is needed at the end.

But I want to hear comments from the fans first.

Dom

[whoisthedoctor]

admin said:

But when the people behind the various ranges hint at that, it's not an easy trend to go against...

Understandable. It's an annoying trend, IMHO. I think I'll keep them between The Eight Doctors and Vampire Science in my own personal timeline for the moment. Though I could certainly see the DWM comics coming after the EDAs.

admin said:

I'll keep the guide like that until we hear more, or somebody bring an nice theory about fitting everything together...

It would be quite easy anyway to move the audios back in the gap between The Eight Doctors and Vampire Science if it what is needed at the end.

But I want to hear comments from the fans first.

Dom

Seems reasonable. Isn't Parkin about to rerelease The History of the Universe? If he makes some sort of "Gallifrey Timeline" in that it may end up being helpful.

[boies00]

An easy explanation would be the Eight Doctor meeting Romana out of time in the audio range. Another explanation could be time resetting itself at some point after The Gallifrey Chronicles.

But I am afraid we won't see a definite answer for a few years until all ranges are definitely closed.

I prefer myself a continuous timeline rather than parallel ones, but I have to do what I think is best for the guide right now.

Dom