The Christmas Invasion Problem

[notanumber]

Hello!!! How's it going?
In any event, I noticed a really glaring error of plot in "The Christmas Invasion", namely that it was earth's 1st "official" First Contact----nothing wrong with that, it had to happen eventually----but HOW it happened seems to fly in the face of everything else in 'Series One'/Season 31. Namely, the Doctor seemed to be the catalyst for the whole chain of events. (He's supposed to keep History on its proper track, not MAKE history) His release of 'Temporal (Vortex) Energy' is what atttracted the 'pilot fish', and then the "shark' to Earth. After the pains the Ninth Dr went through to lessen his profile (ie, the computer virus to erase him from the internet), the Hoax explanation for all the so-called Aliens,etc, the Doctor was the principal cause for the "Invasion". Earth's first 'official' ("public") contact with Aliens is NOT something the Doctor would overlook in researching Earth's History, so the events of this story are a change to the Time line, and a major one at that. Now, EVERY post-"Christmas..."
story---say,2006 or 07---is in a completely new world : a world rocked to its foundations by the undeniable truth of intelligent alien Life. Even if the Sycorax (or whatever) were heading towards Earth anyway, the actual date had to have been moved up---maybe , in the 'original' History, they were to arrive in,say,2009. What if the Doctor ( perhaps #8) had already noted their trajectory, and had noted that date for one of those tedious "save the Apes from the Alien Invaders" kind of deals. He and Charley arrive next to Rose's mums apt building, surprised at how Mickey (running towards the sound of the TARDIS) knows the Dr, TARDIS, etc, and keeps asking about this Rose person. The Doctor is quite surprised to learn the Sycorax have already been dealt with---by his Future self. By using a little imagination, even the blunder of plot of " C Invasion" can by rectified.......even if it means calling in Paul McGann to save the day.

[ryard]

I'm not 100% sure what you're trying to say here, but it seems to me that if someone was researching Earth's first official public contact with aliens, they would discover that the Sycorax came to Earth, threatened the population, then got the hell blown out of them by the British government (if even that much information is revealed...the official story might just be they blew up themselves). Hell, we don't even know what the ultimate spin is gonna be. Anyway, why would any previous incarnation of the Doctor realize that a future incarnation would be the one to fight them off? Maybe he just figured it was UNIT or Torchwood.

[notanumber]

The point I'm trying to make is......without the newly regenerated Doctor, the events of the Christmas Invasion would not have happened. Was the world changed by the invention of the Wheel? Was the world changed by the invention of writing? Aircraft? Guns? OK, they were. The actual event of a 'public' First Contact would transform the world in ways we cannot now fathom. Look at that other SF show.........what is it, ahh! Star Trek. The First Contact scenario in that universe was literally a tranformative event:before a world at war, divided, dying. After (well,a few years after) a United world. Night & day. A PIVOTAL moment in History. OK, here comes "Christmas Invasion". Without the presence of the Doctor, it either would not have happened, or would have happened later....whether it was months or years depending on the flight plan of the Sycorax. The doctor DID say that Earth was attracting attention......but anywho, leaving aside the lame plot device of blood control, the UK putting human blood on a space probe, the PM's plea on nation-wide TV, etc,etc, the problem is : the doctor percipated a, perhaps THE pivotal moment in Human History.....so.....without the Dr being there, it would'nt happen. I know I've only watched 'Dr Who' since the '70's, but doesn't that run counter to the 'history' of the whole program? Didn't the 6th Dr say in "Mark of the Rani" that he was forbidden to make (change) history? That's the problem with modern day First Contact scenarios.......how would they effect , well, everything? And each story AFTER the time of "Christmas Invasion" MUST acknowledge those events. In terms of the series itself, to have 'modern day' stories now is completely out the window. Gone. Because in the "real" world there hasn't been a "public" First Contact....whether it really has happened behind the scenes is moot. If this story did NOT have the Dr as the catalyst for the aliens coming to Earth, fine. BUT THAT WASN'T WHAT HAPPENED. The reason I threw in that bit with the 8th Dr was a way (but it'll never happen) to rectify the whole thing. In "Fathers Day", the Doctor said that the Time Lords would handle that sorta thing (changes to the Time Line)---before. But , they were/are destroyed, so now they won't be cleaning up any temporal messes. So, if the Doctor (8th) had "set his watch" (Silver Nemesis) to an Alien threat, say, when a 'shark''s flight plan brought it by Earth in ,say,2009. He shows up, with the TARDIS landing where it usually does near Rose's Apt. The 8th Dr learns that History has been changed (when NOT recovering from a regeneration, the Dr usually keeps these alien invasion thingies kinda quiet.) So, IF the 10th Dr had gone to Barcelona, the 8th would 've handled the Sycorax. But he didn't. So, the First Contact was made, and History changed. Realizing this, the 8th & 10th Dr's team up to put History back the way it was. End result: No public first contact ----and we can have 'modern day' Dr Who stories where 'Aliens' are theoretical, not fact.

[tractator]

I think I see your point, but it could be argued that the Doctor's involvement with Earth to varying degrees throughout his existance has made him as much a part of its history as the human inhabitants themselves.

Certainly during his third incarnation (the 'UNIT era') his close involvement was essentially what defined the outcome. Without him it would definitely be the case that Earth would have been invaded (and overthrown?) on numerous occasions. His days of non-involvement were very much in the past (In his first incarnation he was very much an advocate of not changing history, and stated on several occasions that time could not be changed: no matter how you acted, events would eventually find a way to happen as they had been intended).

I agree that it was the Doctor's presence that ultimately brought the the Sycorax to Earth, but I'm not sure that this situation is unique: In Remembrance Of The Daleks we discovered that the Daleks came to Earth in search of the Hand Of Omega, a powerful device that the Doctor himself had brought and hidden on this world during his first incarnation. The assumption must surely be that if he hadn't done that, the Daleks would have had no reason to come looking for it. (However, Daleks being Daleks, they would have invaded the Earth eventually anyway. There's that thing again of history eventually finding its way to happen, perhaps.)

As to the fact that the human population as a whole was finally forced to face up to a very overt and apparent alien invasion - well, perhaps it has altered the world, or at least the perceptions of the humans on it, although perhaps not. The fact is that many people, when forced to believe in something that is beyond the scope of their normal experience, simply can't. They either mentally block it out (consciously or subconsciously), or find a rational explanation, however irrational it might actually be. Of course, that would not be everyone - There would surely be little cells of 'skywatchers' and conspiracy theorists who would know it all to be true.

In truth, until the new series is aired, we just can't tell where it is all going.

But it's gonna be fun finding out!

[scotth]

"terms of the series itself, to have 'modern day' stories now is completely out the window. Gone. Because in the "real" world there hasn't been a "public" First Contact....whether it really has happened behind the scenes is moot."

I don't get the point here. It isn't set in our Universe anyway because a Department Store in London didn't explode, the Clock Tower (Big Ben) wasn't destroyed, the PM wasn't killed and replaced by Harriet Jones. So First Contact doesn't spoil "contemporary" stories

[trekrulesall]

notanumber said:

Look at that other SF show.........what is it, ahh! Star Trek. The First Contact scenario in that universe was literally a tranformative event: before a world at war, divided, dying. After (well,a few years after) a United world. Night & day. A PIVOTAL moment in History.

YOU ARE WISE TO PAY HOMAGE TO TREK. DR.WHO WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST IT WEREN'T FOR TREK! DR.WHO STOLE EVERY SINGLE CONCEPT AND IDEA FROM STAR TREK.

FACT.

[lethbridgestewart]

WOW! Hey kid, not to be rude... but you may want to check your dates. Doctor Who pre-dates trek. November of 1963. FYI.

[ryard]

....uhh...

Yeah, the best part is how the Cybermen ripped off the Borg, right?

[chapel]

Bwahahhahahh. Oh God this is sooo funny on soo many levels. I love how some star trek fans are so insecure and they know how crap star trek is that the minute something better comes along instead of saying "Oh thats quite good as well" They have to try and pan it.
Everyone else remember seeing the star trek fans outside cineamas protesting about Star wars bring too violent?
Without over stepping anyone over being presumptious I`d say you`re more than welcome to post and contribute here but don`t try to turn it into "OmG StAr TrEk RuLezz" flamming content.

Just remember most of the concepts you`re claiming doctor who stole originated on Doctor who, not the other way around.

[boies00]

[quote author=trekrulesall board=10th thread=1137899704 post=1138371129
YOU ARE WISE TO PAY HOMAGE TO TREK. DR.WHO WOULDN'T EVEN EXIST IT WEREN'T FOR TREK! DR.WHO STOLE EVERY SINGLE CONCEPT AND IDEA FROM STAR TREK.

FACT. [/quote]

You are on a Doctor Who board, so please refrain to post such inflamatary content -- you're not likely to find anybody agreeing with you here anyway.

If you don't have anything constructive to discuss, about the show I prefer you don't post.

I am closing this thread before anything nasty occurs.

Dom